Beaufort, N.C.

Nov.2, 2020

TO THE EDITOR:

In our community there is a group of people who meet each week for a civil discourse about local, national and world events. Yes, I said “civil.” Who would believe it, right?

I facilitate this discussion group which is whimsically named the “Beaufort Culture Club.” It was an idea developed over coffee at Cru Café in Beaufort between me and a few other geeks, where instead of a club based on specific books, we would pick topics in history, philosophy, arts, culture, etc., and then learn about and discuss them together. Tres nerdy.

As we were preparing for our first meeting, 8 minutes and 46 seconds happened in Minneapolis. We decided that the cultural/historical focus of the group, at least for the time, would be the aftermath of the death of George Floyd, and the BLM movement and all its implications. We quickly arrived at a consensus that our discussions would be civil – no name-calling, abuse, shaming, ad hominem or ad feminem attacks, etc. We further agree that we do not advocate in any way for violence or destruction of property. We believe in civil discourse and neighborliness. We also believe in full respect people of any religion, race, background, gender, etc. When any of us is disrespected, so are we all. The American creed.

Over the course of the last 5 months we have explored many aspects of the local and national debates, with passion but not ran-cor. We have enlivened our meetings at times with music and drama. We have heard from local historians, politicians, activists and law enforcement. While there is no political litmus test to be part of our group, other than commitment to civil discourse, our membership tends to come from one end of the political spectrum. That is not required, however, and I freely admit to being a Libertarian, myself. (and former prosecutor) All are welcome.

The main point is the dialogue. The goal could perhaps be encapsulated as “rebuiliding democracy from the ground up.” There is a common belief amongst group members that our “leaders” in the public realm have not always inspired us. It is time for all of us to be leaders.

Our current project is what we call the “Atlantic Charter 2020.” Those of you who are historically minded may recall that Churchill and Roosevelt began planning for the post World War II world as early as 1939, and ultimately worked with other allies to promulgate the Atlantic Charter in 1942. While some may consider it an act of chutzpah to promulgate a post-war plan for a war you have not yet won, to us the point then and now is to know not just what you are fighting against, but also what you are fighting FOR.

So, for OUR Atlantic Charter, we are currently discussing what we think civil discourse should look like, changes we might like to see in such areas as immigration policy, elections, balance of powers, trade policy, policing, race relations, war on poverty, war on drugs, etc. We are even including how we may wish to address the rifts that have arisen in families and friendships in the current political environment. We are starting these discussions before the election and with many things in doubt.

Yes, we disagree on some things, Many things. But we are still neighbors and community members and we sink or swim together. We in particular are the Beaufort Culture Club.

I write this to let my friends and neighbors know that civil discourse is still possible. If you are not having these kinds of community discussions where you live, start them. If you live near Beaufort, join us. We meet on Tuesdays, outside, behind Cru Café at 120 Turner Street, Beaufort. We are skipping election day, so our next meeting will be Tuesday, November 10th. Dress warmly.

DOUG MIRON

(113) comments

mpjeep

Great letter Mr. Miron. My hats off to your group engaging in conversation intended to enhance understanding. It is difficult to keep a cool head when discussing a heated topic, but respectful dialogues are the key to reaching mutual understanding.

To foster civil dialogues, as it sounds like your group has made a commitment to do, is not necessarily to reach a conclusion, but to respect the views of others, without ridicule or hostility.

As I’ve said before, it seems these days, folks are judged by their political affiliation rather than by their character. There is no escape from politics. Self-righteousness has replaced dialogue, in many cases.

I occasionally enjoy a cup of coffee at the AB coffee shop every week or so. I met an interesting guy, about my age, that stops by for coffee when I do. We struck up a conversation and it was a pleasure to listen to him. We usually discuss the weather, visitors to our area, fishing, boating, etc., but never politics.

One day, I wore my red MAGA hat into the shop. I don’t wear it as much these days out of fear, and from some of the stink eyes I get. As I approached my new friend, I noticed his greeting lessened and our conversation diminished almost immediately. These days, we just nod our heads toward each other, with no more conversation.

As I’ve learned from many folks that post views and opinions on this site (our breakfast club), I’ve realized that I have rarely grown by listening to people with whom I agree, but mature from listening to those with whom I disagreed. And our good editors keep us ‘civil” as best they can.

drewski

Thats an interesting story jeep, coffee shop friend..things going well.. maga hat and suddenly its over. Likely there is a lesson there, no doubt the usual ccp suspects will say " see those hypocritical intolerant libs"

Others, myself included might say if you lay down with dogs you get fleas. Trump is a deeply flawed man -baby. Who has bullied his way through a life of extreme privilege. When I saw him mocking that disabled reporter, in that instant I was done with him, forever! If that's the type of man you support.. cant say I blame your new friend for keeping his distance.

Doug Miron

Thanks, Jeep. I was looking for the "like" button. Sorry about your "friend" who could not tolerate your Maga hat. I would be happy to meet for coffee. I do maintenance at Cru in Bft so am usually there in the mornings, but also happy to come out to AB - do you mean the shop near the Food Lion and the movie theater?

mpjeep

Yes, the coffee shop below Food Lion. Coffee sounds good. I'm only there once a week or so, with no set days. I do my grocery shopping very early and then hit the coffee shop. Maybe I'll stop by your meeting place in Beaufort one day.

pat w

Mr. Miron, you admit that most of your membership comes from one part of the political spectrum so I imagine it’s not difficult to have a civil conversation. For your Atlantic Charter, you state you are currently discussing what WE THINK civil discourse SHOULD look like. Doesn’t sound like a group which really does want to deal with the other side of the aisle. Girl from the Other Side

Doug Miron

Pat - I wish we did not have "sides" at all, but could hold on first to the value of respecting each other. Part of the reason for putting in this letter was to let people in the community generally know that this conversation is going on, and available to the public. Feel free to join us.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

I have tried to have conversation of views with the liberal type. Regardless of how I engage them, they always resort to talking over me, getting loud, but avoiding giving examples to back up their claims. I suspect this is a repeating event with every conservative who attempts to engage the "other side". I wear my MAGA hat alongside my Blackwater insignia, and other items. The looks or sneers affect me not. To date, none have gone beyond the sneer stage. Must be something about me that deters this "In your face" behavior seen elsewhere. Regardless, it is a time tested fact that trying to engage a liberal is a waste of time. The liberal mindset is fixed on the notion that taking from one group of citizens, and giving to another, is just dandy. Also, the liberal embraces the idea that government is the big daddy; the parent of us all. We are in service to the government, and are much like a dog on a leash. The liberal embraces socialism as seen in other failed countries, but gives the idea a different name, like liberal socialism or ____________(fill in the blank) socialism. IT is the same old failed idea that has ruined many a country. The liberal mind believes that if they riot enough, intimidate enough, or lie enough, they will win. And, regrettably, sometimes they do. Sadly, in time, and deterioration of quality of citizenship, the liberal stands a good chance of winning. This is because the liberal has learned that by pandering and using taxpayers money, they can buy votes. Just promise the moon, but deliver nothing. The voters seem to develop amnesia every election cycle. We must return to the days where liberals were given the "stink eye" as jeep describes. When men and women knew what sex they are; and babies were loved, not killed. When elections were held and folks voted in person, and honestly. When doors were not locked, days were peaceful, folks didn't murder each other over political agendas. The liberal mind is very much like a cancer, is malignant, and cannot be trusted.

mpjeep

Might be that gun on your hip that keeps folks from approaching you.[smile]

CARTERETISCORRUPT

It is not visible.

Swasnboro_Native

I'm not a liberal, but I'm not conservative. I will gladly discuss anything you'd like. I disagree with your premise and honestly, you seem bitter. Instead of making essays on why liberals are so awful, why don't you try to meet them halfway. Just because you encountered a few bad eggs doesn't mean it's all bad. I'm not afraid of your hat. It's a hat. Republicans and everyone else are as dependent on government as any liberal. Case and point is this tired old claim one restarting the economy. You mean the one the government runs that taxes the living daylights out of the lower middle class and allows the top tiers to run freely? If you don't like government, then give up your social security (which will run out soon enough anyway). I don't see pandering to use tax payer money any different than pandering to use lobbyist money. It's all green, it all smells and it's all dirty. I ask you, friend, please give an honest look at reality. Your name is Carteret is Corrupt and yet Carteret is mostly inhabited by folks who lean conservative/right. If you believe them to be so corrupt, discuss it with your community as opposed to the internet.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

Swansboro: Sorry I don't do things as you mandate. Meeting liberals half way is a losing proposition. For example: Russia will invade a country, then when other countries raise concerns, the Russians agree to meet halfway, and keep a little less than the whole country. The point is they STILL get what isn't theirs to keep. That is the way liberals are, and why half way isn't the way to go. They will stomp on the Constitution, and you would have me let them keep half of what they stole. Nope, that won't happen. I am not and will not be dependent on government. Discuss "with the community". Sadly, that doesn't seem to work either. IT is way past time for talking. This election has shown that a lot of Americans no longer cherish freedom. Those that do, must do their duty.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

As far as Social Security is concerned; We paid into that ponzi scheme for our whole working lives. IT is OURS, not the governements. I want back what was taken by force from me. IT is that simple. It is a debt owed, not dependence on government. Meeting half way would be to let them screw me only half way. You can keep that logic.

Sleepwalker

Liberals are in general hypocrites. I do not know one dem that takes a homeless person to their doctor and pays for everything. I do not know one dem that has homeless folks camped out in their living room...unlocked doors with a sign that says all welcome...free housing and food at their house.

drewski

SO a polite invitation to join or start your own group, met instantly with 2/3 totally negative comments. Discourse is possible of course with ppl of goodwill, willing to actually listen and ponder what they heard. Others...steeped in the sure and certain knowledge that they and only they are right, they know best for everyone, and their rights are the only rights that matter, with those ppl, a nod and a knowing smile is all that is possible.

mpjeep

Well the concept of Rule of Law is certainly dead. Don't think I could get away with burning down my local grocery store, but some can,

mpjeep

If you de-friend folks because of their politics, that’s narcissism at its highest point.

dc

Something for the elementary level so quickly offended by anyone daring to respond to their leftist elitist pontificating BS is this. A president with the gall & elected to take on the D/R or R/D (whichever one you prefer) crooked political system has shown us all how to break a crooked system while they pulled every crooked lever available to their crooked fingers to break him. These leftists/Marxists along with their weak-kneed tag-alongs will probably steal the presidency unless the SC rules to remedy crookiness like not allowing observers especially in the crooked large cities. This president has pressed forward with unimaginable accomplishments in a very short time & just might be back to teach a few more lessons to a broken crooked political system & maybe by then even a few of heretofore lovers of a crooked system will join in for another breath of fresh air from the anti-American crooks.

drewski

Lol , whats crooked is the trump crime family, and the brainwashed masses who sit through 3 hrs of propaganda on fox from 8 to 11 every night. " suburban women why won't you like me" I can face the house and senate did not experience a blue wave, perhaps you should face trump is gonna lose, because a majority of Americans did not drink the orange koolaid, and see him for the crooked narcissist that he is.. If there is proof of voter fraud. Lets see it! Repeated allegations without proof are known as ...lies. sad weak lies from a sad weak man.

mpjeep

Although 80% of our views and opinions are 180 degrees apart, you are a worthy adversary that makes me think more than I normally would, and we probably could have been friends at some point in our past.

Probably some really good debates until I had to say “Don't make this old man mad. The older I get the less prison is a deterrent”.

[smile]

dc

Not allowing observers along other obvious irregularities are prima facie evidence..... You again drank that leftist/Marxist media predictions push polling juice drank by the dead & buried pollster society. Only way to save face is new election with honest rules/system. FL was able to straighten out their mess after prior election fiascos. No reason others can't do the same. Much to your along with your leftists/Marxists brethren, TDS Rs, etc this president ain't finished by a long shot. He's an undefeated street fighter the likes we've never seen in the political realm. You, his other various foreign & domestic anti-American enemies & his faithful supporters can count on it.

(Edited by staff.)

dc

BTW although the Chicago Mofia avoided justice in this crooked system the DE mofia better hope the system doesn't find a little honesty before 1/20/21 if this fraudulent train manages to continue its chug towards the station.

JusticeForAll

This letter is remarkable and hopefully more people's minds can be opened to possibilities and not entrenched in a single approach to correcting problems. Politics is corrupt on both sides. It really seems though that political ideologies are taking a back seat to the manifestation of religious zealots. And politics and religion should NEVER be conjoint.

Doug Miron

Heard.

dc

Mayor "big boy pants" & any big boy pants on here would do well to listen to liberal D law professor Turley & what he thinks of nothing but a "big mouth" mayor of a cesspool.

mpjeep

Wow this story was taken down quickly... Quid Pro Quo?

North Carolina’s first lady has apologized after a screenshot of her saying she “flipped off” supporters of President Donald Trump during a rally in the state was circulated on social media.

drewski

..... Was it a rally in the state? Or was it trump protestors at her home? Did she apologize and ask for forgiveness? Lets deny that forgiveness and pillory her shall we?

(Edited by staff.)

dc

Like DNC chair Perez sez AOC is the future of the D Party. And, that middle finger is the future of NC residents insofar as the NC D Party "leadership" is concerned. Maybe the guv can explain it away. How long you willing to wait?

David Collins

Yes , that story did fade away rather abruptly , along with some other stories that perhaps received less than favorable responses . Seems like most all news websites have the habit of evolving away from the at times reality of the painful truth towards warmth and fuzziness . Am feeling that something has changed at the NT and reality is starting to slip slide away , as the song goes .

mpjeep

C’mon man - you surely know better than that - with all due respect, pack it in. Bad folks always apologize and ask for forgiveness, What they are sorry for is getting called out or caught.

You seem like the type of person who would walk up to Mike Tyson and tell him he talks funny.

drewski

So .. the news times has engaged in a quid pro quo with the gov's wife, and the NT is no longer conservative enough for some folks, and only a redo of the election is fair. And the gov's wife who flipped the bird at trump supporters protesting at her home is a 'bad folks" What interesting times we live in.

dc

How classy of the "lady".

David Collins

My , my , what a vivid imagination we have and the knack to insert words not spoken , is commendable . Wrong but commendable . Straight out of msnbc and the like .

David Collins

Ski , might want to read the accompanying article in this edition about the Gov’s wife flipping people off . Pay attention to her location at the time , calling that her home is a bit of a stretch even for you .

mpjeep

And they had a permit from the city, so she knew they would be there.

mpjeep

Big difference between some average Joe on the street and the wife of the governor, that is supposed to represent "all" of North Carolina, at least that's what her husband said.

Maybe Mrs. Coop needs to join our discussion on civil discourse?

David Collins

Just another example of do what I say , not as I do . Going to be a long 4 years of hypocrisy . Get used to it .

mpjeep

My family and I are in mourning and ask that you respect our privacy during these difficult times. Just wanted to send congratulatory letters, before I sink back into my bed.

Dear President Trump: On behalf of the majority of folks in North Carolina, I congratulate you on your well-deserved victory in our state. Just wish more folks were as educated as North Carolinians.

Dear Soon to be President Smokin Joe: So, congratulations on your victory along with your support staff of Leftists-Socialists-Marxists, who hate America. C’mon man!

Although my heart is heavy today and filled with trepidation, I know the sun will eventually rise again and that you, Mr. Trump, will be back in 2024.

And just in case any of you out there need some support over the next four years - National Crisis Prevention Hotline: 1-800-273-8255.

dc

Here's a bottom line basic problem the D Party has & why we hear "civil war" uttered. Nancy & other D Party so-called leaders let a crazy few elected (emphasis added) Leftists/Socialists/Communists whatever run with the ball stirring hate & discontent with utterance like "hit list" & "punishment" for the opposition's supporters. Then there was an ex Sec of Labor talking "re-education". If true & no indication of any in their party speaking out to counter their madness & communistic, 3rd world strongman, etc threats what can be expected? Evidently she & they really have no problem with it. Maybe she can tape that SOTU speech back together & that will be a relief to those threatened.

dc

"Mathematical impossibilities may be what trips up Democrat plans". By Andrea Widburg. Wonder what degree of fraud, irregularities, etc. would be necessary to convince enough justices sans Robert's?

drewski

Ms widburg also does a nice rendition of goldilocks and the 3 bears. Trumps first lawsuit was dismissed after an hr long hearing, his lawyers were forced to admit the poll watchers had full access. There is a big difference between tweets and speeches on fox news, and actual facts and testimony.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

Biden will never be my president, he is the lapdog of the socialist liberals. Harris is far more of a threat than North Korea or Russia. No matter what perverted law these two pass; around half of the country will never comply. We will see all manner of executive orders toward raping our Constitutional Rights. While we do have a majority in the Supreme Court; I shudder to have a civil war hinging on such a few folks. And make no mistake; we will fight over the Second Amendment. Each will have to decide whether to be a sheeple, or a citizen.

dc

"Yes, those 'glitches' are from the same software that made Venezuela's elections so free and fair". By Monica Showalter. Somehow this sounds a little deeper than "The Three Bears" . Anybody agree?

dc

"There are no software 'glitches' ". By Jay Valentine. One might assume some of these folks know as much about computer technology as some of the "experts" opining on here. And, Sidney Powell using words like 'Hammer' & think it was 'Scorecard'. This is all a bunch of hogwash right "experts"?

dc

"It's possible that 2020's election fraud is way bigger than we thought". By Andrea Widburg. C'mon you computer "experts" is it possible or is this just goldilocks? Was anything done about the TX & KY cases? Can anything be done today? Think anybody might be actually investigating or is it all just a bunch of theorizing?

dc

"The keystone corruption state". By Ruth King. Didn't NC corruption require a new election? Is PA less corrupt?

dc

"The Coming Purge If Trump Loses". By Brian C. Joodeph. Is this just some BS talk from BO's people & AOC or should they be taken at their word? Surely Harris will protect the deplorables from them & their "come together" threats won't she? Why don't y'all meet over coffee & discuss with some radicals who aren't really radicals.

dc

Now, let's recap for those who may have conveniently forgotten. "Trump accuses Democrats of cheating? What goes around comes around". By Byron York.

drewski

Lol soon we will start the trump tears tour for the faithful, to be followed in jan by trump tv " all nonsense all the time" Since fox is now also fake news, it will be oann and trump tv. (I speculate hannity will stay at fox since everyone knows what happens to trump businesses)All we see from the right is vauge accusations, speculation on what might have occurred, and of course excuses. " the evidence has been destroyed" Nary a shred of evidence that will convince any court in the land. Biden won, mature adults know it, people with serious mental health issues will continue to compare biden to Stalin, and predict all manner of violent drama. A good example of why red flag laws exist?

mpjeep

I like Haystack TV .com

CARTERETISCORRUPT

We shall extend all the courtesies to Biden/Harris that they did to President Trump. That is all.

mpjeep

Right on, brother!

drewski

.....

any more racist references like the one you just left here will get you banned from this site.   -Web Editor

(Edited by staff.)

dc

Could the vote be 26-24 when the electors meet?

David Collins

Corrupt , why did you have to say that ? Someone must take the high road of civility and it might as well be us . We are better than that . Not saying to be stupid , weak or complacent , just better . We all are tired of all the name calling and the like . Enough is enough and it solves absolutely nothing .

dc

Surely any real or fellow traveler Leftists/Socialists/Communists on here need no reminding but maybe it hasn't sunk in just yet. "Class Conflict Will Cripple Democrats". By Steve McCann. Quoted in part, "The American left now is committed to violence as a way to achieve its goals" & 'Saturday night after the media proclaimed that Biden was elected, demonstrators in the nation's capital chanted " burn it down"!' The "burning" question is: Are you going to join them or support LE & other authorities when they have no other choice but to at least try to stop them? An even bigger burning question is: Will the so-called leadership even try to stop them from burning it down? Lots to think about folks.

drewski

Sure wish you guys could get your story straight. Biden is Stalin, no biden is a senile tool of the left, no biden was on the crime bill he is racist. He has been in public eye for 48 years, there are no surprises. All this fanciful and contradictory speculation is just more sour grapes, sour,sour grapes.

mpjeep

At times, I have trouble getting my message across without the use of nonverbal communications and body language: facial expression gestures, posture, touch, tone of voice, eye contact, etc..

Oh sure, I can use Emojis, which I find myself doing quite often, but it’s just not the same. It’s not always what we say, but how we say it. The words we use in writing affect the way the message is received.

mpjeep

Right, dc,

I’m all for giving Biden a chance, but in my mind, I feel the divide will widen in this country.

Martin Crane said “The system ain't perfect - sometimes the bad guy wins”.

Democratic Diehards and other Never-Trumpers, like Michelle Obama, Hillary Clinton, Nancy Pelosi and Mrs. Roy Cooper continue to bash Trump and Trump supporters, even after Biden has won. No high road with them and they continue to stir the pot.

drewski

As always jeep you only mention one side.. tell us why after 2 terms as president obamas portrait has never been hung in wh, with the ceremony and dignity all other presidents have enjoyed? Cause trump is a petty man who is in completion with obamas legacy...and no doubt still renting space in his head to John McCain.

Do tell us more about the evil never trumpets though. :)

mpjeep

Now, ski, how would I know why Obama's portrait is not in the White House? He had 8 years to hang one.

drewski

Jeep, let me suggest that you google it, find information from different sources, and make your own judgement, although I did give you the answer. During your research you may uncover something about a trump portrait, bought with charity money and hanging in mar a lago. That story ends with a 2 million dollar fine and the whole trump crime family banned from operating a charity for a decade. Red and blue politics aside i do not understand how anyone who considers themselves a decent person, be familar with djt over the last 60 years of his life, can support him.

dc

Exactly mjp & they will continue stirring the pot along with their leader-supported many, varied & obviously .violent flavors of their Leftist/Marxist brethren. After about 2 seconds considering the crooked extended elbow of hypocritical, back-stabbing & demanding our-way-or-the-highway "goodwill" the wisest response is that of great American patriot James Woods. Trumpism has given conservatives a miraculously eye-opening wisdom that you don't have to take their BS like a beatened puppy any more.

JusticeForAll

Could it be that the insanity of Trump and his supporters are surpassing any logical explanation? Just look at the responses from Trump supporters on this forum. And their irrational thoughts are what is driving this madness. Anything the democrats say do not compare to the what is being said from the righteous right. There is little basis for the allegations and Trump has been setting the stage for this for over a year. If they were aware of such, why weren't legal provisions put in place? Need to step back and look at this from a non-partisan view point. For this country to bow to one man, who has obvious mental problems, and just say "oh, that's just the way he is" is beyond comprehension and will bring this country to the lowest point in our history.

mpjeep

Oh balderdash 

drewski

Always logical justice.. now great American patriot James Woods, is just another Hollywood type with a conserative view ,his opinions matter,and he is a great patriot! let lib Hollywood types give an opinion and stand by for the scorn storm. How is that possible? How very odd indeed!

CARTERETISCORRUPT

Funny indeed. After all the rioting and looting done by the left; calling Trump supporters "irrational", is a laugh out loud proposition at the least. But more to the point; the libs had their rioting period. Our turn won't be so gentle. The evidence is immense, of cheating in the election. Biden supporters will never admit the truth. They spent four years falsely attacking our president, and now want us to just make nice. NEVER! We will be all to happy to return all the civility the liberals showed our president, to theirs. Exponentially. Insane? The only one insane is the poor soul who thinks a Biden presidency will end well.

dc

But he sounded fine to you at one time? Evidently you haven't been listening for whatever reason. Is it true RCP pulled PA & if so why? Yes, this is crazy stuff offered up by dishonest institutions in case you've been unaware.

drewski

Yes, this is crazy stuff offered up by dishonest institutions ..well show the proof then, not tweets, not conspiracy theories, not opinion from right wing pundits. Proof that will pass muster in a court of law.

Trumps ego won't allow him to concede, he will insist to his dying day he won, he won the popular vote in 2016 too. He commissioned a panel to prove that and it was quietly disbanded when that was found to be untrue. You want to hitch your wagon to a delusional megalomaniac?

That is your right, to have your beliefs. If, as an adult you say/ beleive things like the moon is green cheese, or trump won the popular vote in 16, despite facts to the contrary you should not be surprised when people scoff.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

I would rather hitch my wagon to a pro american president, instead of a anencephalic, anti-american pair of traitors. Trump worked to better our country, these liberals are about destruction.

drewski

No dc I think James woods was a good actor, Ted nugent was a good musician, neither of them hold any sway with me otherwise. I read lots of opinions both right and left. Then I apply logical thinking,Christian principles, examine my own bias and draw a conclusion. Neither the left or the right hold a monopoly on truth,justice,or morality.

mpjeep

Yep, ski, you are correct. In searching Politifact, Forbes and the NY Attorney General's website, I found all the info you suggested about Trump Charities, Pictures and Court Orders to be true. Looks like Eric Trump was the main player in these activities.

There is a new intensive-care unit at St. Jude’s Hospital with Eric Trump's name on it, and the foundation's money has funded research into a rare form of cancer. So, some good has come from Eric’s deceptive practices.

I also think that both the Trumps and the Bidens are akin to an organized crime family.

Now onto your statement on how you apply logical thinking before making a decision, I’d have to know how you define “logical”?

[unsure]

dc

Don't you think it's more about what they do versus what they say? You haven't noticed what's been going on in D-controlled cities & states or do you just not care?

mpjeep

President Elect Biden has said he wants to bring the country together and that he is the President for all people, liberals and conservatives alike. I will stand by Biden in his efforts to unite us. We need this unity.

Even after Biden won though, political officials, both current and past, continue to “taunt” Trump supporters labeling us as Un-American for voting for the candidate of our choice. How will this repair relationships?

I expect the good folks that post on this site to take shots at conservatives/liberals for our views and opinions. Give and Take, that’s just what we do here.

But for Politicians to continue to tear us apart and make enemies of each other, should be unacceptable to most people.

Even Ex-President Jimmy Carter, recently, took a shot at Trump supporters. Yea, I know, who really cares about Carter. But my point is, if every time we turn on the TV News or read a Newspaper and hear the constant criticism about our political affiliation, I wonder how Biden will ever pull this country together.

The more I’m slammed and hear derogatory remarks toward me and my family, the more I fear civil unrest is our future and I take on a more “fight fire with fire” and an “eye for an eye” attitude.

Theodore Roosevelt said, “Nobody cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.” And trust me, I care about this country!

CARTERETISCORRUPT

After four years of liberal attacks; they now want us to come together. NOT. We live to serve up the same fodder to Biden that his ilk threw at my president. I will never accept Biden or Harris. They are both traitors.

dc

Yes, anybody that is brave enough to jeopardize their career for the country is a patriot & unfortunately it's obvious he is in the tiny minority of Patriots in that dump. Evidently the only reason this was even a close election is the president being blamed for the CCP covered up virus. What's astounding is the almost total absence of criticism of the CCP. My recollection was one was at some point was a Trump fan but the shutdown based on the advise of those genius scientists that are so touted by that previous supporter turned vicious. Was it $ or some other devastating thing? Then he pushes to open back up & the previous fan is even more critical. Crazy stuff alright & it ain't this president who has exposed more than the faint at heart can handle. Those who have clouded vision as if wearing fish scale glasses can't see what is happening with the rapidly advancing march of Marxist here & across the world have little if any time to buy lenses that will make you cleare. That Marxist crept for many but is now at a speed & force that will be extremely if at all possible to slow let alone reverse. So, be cozy & secure in your coastal paradise status quo and wait for the Marxism tsunami to drown you the way it has already so many throughout the world. This is not about the political family dynasties, the political class, R & D parties or even this president & the somewhat evenly divided pros & cons of this man or any other man or woman. It's rather to me about those cemeteries sometimes full of dead Patriots & those who, like my cousin, will never return to American soil & rest beside his deceased parents at a small country church in Merry Hill, NC. Whoever put up the Korean War Dead website honors his name, date of MIA & KIA. An older brother remembers visiting his parents' home on the Sunday before he left American soil for the last time never to enjoy the love & comfort of his parents, 6 siblings & their families or a wife & family of his own. My brother said he was full of life & patriotism eager to go fight for his country at the Sunday pleasant Sunday afternoon dinner. Similarly, a brother-in-law's brother 23 or 24 at the time left a Merchant Marine position to in his words "go to where action is". He too never returned to American soil.

dc

(Continued) over 15 years ago while perusing some military, veterans, etc websites a came across a post by a person describing himself as an elderly black man from NYC looking for a white man from eastern NC who saved his life as well as several others in his platoon or company giving the white man's last name but he didn't remember the first name. He wanted to thank him for saving his & others lives. Remembering that my deceased brother-in-law had mentioned his brother's serve in the past & it matched the last name the black gentlemanI was looking for. I passed the info on to their only living brother & he contacted the black gentleman & told him his brother like my cousin was first declared MIA & later KIA but his body was never found. The black gentlemen said he wasn't surprised because the last he saw him they both were wounded but after getting the black soldier to a safer area he grabbed his & returned to the fight. Of course he too is listed on the Korean War Dead Website.

dc

Add after "grabbed" the word rifle.

dc

(Continued) I'm keenly aware there are millions of stories like this. My 3 brothers & I were fortunate we never had to fight in a hot war. Probably the only reason we didn't was because our 4 older sisters were the only ones draft age during WWII & Korea. We boys were all draft age before & during the Vietnam era but we all joined services of our choice right out of high school rather than wait for the draft notice. Suffice it to say we all served & were at one time or another probably in harm's way but fortunate to get through our service with minimum injuries if any & none hot war related. Service to one's country is not a D or R thing as both have obviously served patriotly. Much has been made of Clinton & the president's draft dodging. Both of them seem to be anti-war. We could argue about their individual positions to exhaustion. After almost 20 years of ME war this president I believe has given great effort & wisdom to avert war. I believe he understands Marxism & all the other dangers in the world to our country & its cherished freedoms. In the past we have taken to the battlefields to solve our differences but how long can we continue? Compared to past fights for a way of life this president I believe has a different vision to overcome our adversaries while protecting our military's lives & life, liberty & prosperity for all.

drewski

We will just have to disagree. I feel trump is out for trump and trump alone, if the far right and evangelicals can help, he is all for it. I AM ABSOLUTELY not impressed with flag hugging from a draft dodger, bible holding in front of a church from someone who never attends. The m/e wars were already drawing down during obamas watch, as the focus moved to paccom from centcom. I am way more worried about what Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech, then I am about protests and yes RIOTS. It has been said " when fascism comes to america, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a bible."

Trump is a dangerous demagogue, who would see/ incite this country burn to the ground just to satisfy his ego. He has no moral compass, is not a hero, and if he had not inherited millions would likely have been imprisoned decades ago for his behaviour. Biden is no prize, trump is a dangerous lunatic.

Have a happy and relaxing veterans day.

I am going to try to..

We deserve it.

drewski

Glad you looked into it jeep. So you know the trump family agreed to a 2 million fine and a ban for 10 years to avoid prosecution. Did their charity do some good, yes. Taking money from others, and diverting some to yourself. Described by ag as " personal piggy bank" as I remember.

So, where on moral scale do you find stealing others money, earmarked/collected for children's cancer research? To buy among other things a portrait of yourself. While Eric was in nominal charge djt is who runs the show.

Logic is making decisions based on truth/ validity.

mpjeep

Just and FYI...There is no moral scale in politics, ski.

dc

So, you're saying fascism has been with us from day one wrapped in flags & Bibles? What a joke! C'mon man. Trump's personal & business life has about as much to do with his presidency as most if not all presidents although the $ making schemes from their presidency began in modern times with Ford. Who has made more off politics than the Clintons & Obamas? Who?

drewski

Actually what I quoted about fascism started with the word " when" ( future tense) Many of your statements are just incorrect, Our involvement in vietnam started with truman , not LBJ and spanned 5 presidencies, the m/e wars you so frequently decry were started with the bushes. gop I believe? Not Obama right?incoming presidents have to deal with the situations handed to them. Wars for instance. Obviously you think trump is a great man and was a great president. I disagree. Money making schemes started with Ford? Best brush up on your history. US Grant comes to mind as an example. Your fixation with the clintons and obamas, while turning a blind eye to the trump family corruption suggests a total lack of objectivity. Sorry you will be unable to celebrate on this veterans day. To me, today in america is to celebrate the service members who did their duty and returned. Memorial day is for those who did not return.

dc

Based on recent info you can add Bidens to the "who" list.

dc

Your harsh "feelings" towards this president does nothing to make your case to demean him. I find it lame & sickening, As opposed to JB he has amassed an impressive record of RESULTS (capitalized & emphasis added). JB has a 47-year record of anything but impressive. So, maybe you shoukd put your "feelings" aside & face reality. The reality is this president came into office facing a total mess left for him by BO & JB. Could go into all the traps laid for him & his administration also but we know that story is a whole other MESS he's dealt with & survived while simultaneously amassing admirable success. Like to have seen a career politician deal with same & survive. Maybe BO could with his race card, class warfare & bureaucratic stronghold. Suffice it to say he's cleaned up the mess & had the country on an unprecedented roll until the CCP covered up virus struck throughout the world. Even after a shutdown things with his business oriented leadership things are quickly regaining traction & a vaccine as he promised has arrived in a timeframe previously unheard of. Aside from your NO RESULTS guy what do your "feelings" tell you about JB's probable draft dodging? Haven't seen him hug any American flags but why would he since he seems partial to the CCP. That's a RED FLAG in more ways than one.

mpjeep

Well said, dc!

dc

And, thanks for wishing me a happy Veterans' Day but afraid I never have a happy day on Veterans' & Memorial Days because my mind, heart and soul aches thinking about all those young but dead veterans just beginning their lives only to have it extinguished because of idiotic politicians like LBJ & BO running wars from the Oval Office as opposed to wise presidents like Truman & this president saving those young lives by doing whatever it takes to end wars.

mpjeep

You know, ski, say what you want about Trump and me, but you know as well as I do, that if Biden wants us to come together and to unify, he is going to have to stop his party’s leaders from talking about conservatives as the enemy. This he has failed to do so far. So why should I trust that he will do so?

He continues to support BLM and systemic racism, support of Antifa and the continuing verbal attacks on Trump supporters.

Former first lady Michelle Obama continues to say Trump supporters are liars, cheaters and haters. I personally take exception to her statements. And Hillary saying Trump supporters are deplorables. That coming from a woman married to Bill.

Biden doesn’t want unity, he just wants conservatives to keep quiet and follow his lead no matter what. His position is to follow blindly or get out of the way. Control, control, control!

I just don’t think Biden has the wherewithal to call out his own folks to unite. He doesn't want to recognize those that think differently.

drewski

jeep I agree with you that txt is one dimensional and lacks facial expression , tone etc to make communication easier. Clear writing and reading is all the more important. I do enjoy our discussions. i asked how you felt on a moral plane about the trump family ( not just eric) stealing from their charity. You responded there is no moral scale in politics. That is kinda a non answer diversion. we were not talking about politics , we were talking about a politician who stole from charity. there is a difference. I assume you are a good guy, good guys know stealing is wrong. For a supposed billionaire, to take money that was donated by others for childrens cancer research is quite frankly appalling.

I said when making decisions i try to examine my own bias, its difficult to sometimes even be aware of your own bias. You have previously cited examples of blacks being killed as making you angry. That is one big platform of BLM. I can support that. Other portions of their platform I do not support, like reparations. I do not know what you mean when you say biden supports systemic racism. example? If you want to have lively/ productive discussions with me, I would be grateful if you would examine your own bias when pondering things. IE: in your response on the trump portrait /charity scandal I feel like you tried to foist it off on eric, when u must know all of them were involved &banned for a decade, and you declined to say outright that taking charity money is pretty disgusting behavior. Let me suggest that you try to separate hunter and joe biden in your mind. I think hunter getting a exec job at foreign oil company is sketchy, likely due to his fathers position, hunter has likely played his fathers vp position for all its worth, and that hunter has problems deep as a well. That reflects poorly on Hunter. Do we punish the father 'cause the son is druggie/crook/opportunist? there has been no proof what-so-ever that joe biden did anything wrong. If there was some smoking gun you can believe it would have been brought forward. All we see is opinion, speculation and good old fashioned mud slinging from media opinion hosts. i wish both parties had better candidates. but you you use quotes saying the left is so harsh and mean, do you not hear tucker and hannities bombastic words and accusations? if a republican doesent toe the far right ideological line whats the first thing said "RINO". Both parties are equality guilty of rigidity,name calling, irresponsible statements and behavior. You need not admit that to me, but please, admit it to yourself. Have a great day my friend!

mpjeep

No I don’t agree with anyone trying to pull a fast one on any type of charity, including The Donald. Happy…..I said it.

I should have said it ‘seems” to me there is no moral scale in politics.

Biden believes that racism is a normal practice of everything done in the US, hiring practices, education, healthcare, etc.. I don’t, as I don’t believe in reparations.

There is no proof “yet” that Joe knew anything about his son's activities. Time will tell and it’s early. They are a close knit family.

I don’t watch Carlson and really despise listening to Hannity. And I do admit both parties are guilty of name calling, but my point is, it’s over, Biden won, let’s see what he can do. His own party is not helping his efforts, so far.

Trump will eventually concede. Someone once said show me a good loser and I’ll show you a loser.

And yes, I do enjoy a go give and take and posting on this website. Does open my eyes some and I now currently looking closer at AR-15s.

Cheers, friend!

[smile][smile]

drewski

Perhaps you should do a lil research on systematic racism? I don't beleive its an all encompassing excuse, but certainly it exists. Nc 30% black nc prison pop 67%

Is that because blacks commit more crime, or because they are less likely to afford a lawyer who golf's with the judge?

Why are they poorer? Less opportunity?

Personally I think it has more to do with social class then race, but racisism is what caused the social class strata. Pointing to a single success story say dr Ben Carson who grew up in public housing yet went on to be famous and presumably rich neurosurgeon, and saying see it can be done, kinda just whitewashes ( pun intended) the overwhelming obstacles faced by persons of color, esp those from low income homes.

mpjeep

Oh, I’ve done a lot of research on systemic racism. Systemic refers to something that is spread throughout (all inclusive). Racism is prejudice or discrimination directed against a person or people on the basis of their ethnic group.

I believe there is racism in American, but I don’t believe in systemic racism.

As you know, I have been terribly disgusted with the blue on black crime that’s been going on in the US. But in today’s world, nobody is more privileged than black Americans.

Educational institutions, employers, government, media, rich and powerful bend over backwards to provide black Americans with every opportunity to succeed, pouring billions into their communities, affirmative action, quotas and bonus SAT points, etc.

God helps those who help themselves". Self initiative is of utmost importance.

drewski

Systematic could also mean a series of related events through a length of time couldn't it? Lets say farm and home loans denied to blacks from 1950 to 1980, thats 3 generations of accumulated wealth available to some but not to others. Further suppose the haves who got loans, then had better schools, better jobs, more opportunities. Meanwhile the have not have paid more for insurance, their car payments are higher,their rent has built no equity, their food costs are higher and choices more limited., give it some thought?

David Collins

Historically a rather helpless bunch . Just look at the mother country .

dc

BO donated none of his salary while the president donates all of his his. MO staff oi f 23 while first lady staff of 4.

drewski

Well obama dident have all the side graft coming in that trump does, first modern president to not release taxes, nor put assets in blind trust. Never mind all those golf trips to his failing properties where the secret service is billed among other things 3 bucks per glass of water. Perhaps ms Obama had a 6x larger staff since she did 10x the work? This will be my final remark on civil discourse is possible. no new ground is being covered, and beating a dead horse quickly loses my interest. Have a great Thanksgiving everyone.

dc

"NY Attorney General And Trump Foundation -Much Ado About Not Much". By Peter J. Reilly.

dc

If one was interested in finding a clue why the progressives hate this president beyond any logic evidently there's a book "Profiles in Corruption: Abuse of Power by America's Progressive Elite" by Peter Schweizer.

mpjeep

Now don’t get what I’m saying below as coming from a racist person. I don’t consider myself racist, but maybe all of us are just a little bit. I know BLM and LeBron James are trying to turn me.

In 1901, President Roosevelt invited an African American spokesman, Booker T. Washington, to dine with him and his family at the White House.

The response from the Southern folks was immediate and vicious. With folks saying the White House is now saturated with odors, the most damnable outrage in US history and suggested Roosevelt should have his daughter marry Washington.

The Northern folks were more generous, suggesting that the dinner was an attempt by Roosevelt to emphasize he was everybody's president.

In 1940, 60 percent of employed black women worked as domestic servants; today the number is down to 2.2 percent,

In 1958, 44 percent of whites said they would move if a black family became their next door neighbor; today the figure is 1 percent.

In 1964, the year the great Civil Rights Act was passed, only 18 percent of whites claimed to have a friend who was black; today 86 percent say they do, while 87 percent of blacks assert they have white friends.

In 2001, Colin Powell was appointed secretary of state, making him the first African American to serve as America’s top diplomat. In 2008, Barack Obama was elected as the 44th president of the United States, the first African American to hold that office and serving two terms. In 2020, Kamala Harris was elected as VP of the United States, the first African American to hold that office. Look at how many Police Chiefs and DAs are black across the country.

Five years before I retired (early 2000s) our Human Resource Director required during the interviewing process for new hires that we have a mix of candidates that included minorities.

If we didn’t have qualified minorities,she would take the time to go to schools and other sources to ensure we had a proper mix. And trust me, if all candidates were fairly equal, we better have some real good data to support a hiring recommendation for a white male.

Even the sitcom, Andy Griffith, that ran in the 60s, didn’t have any black residents and only one black character speaking part, Opie’s football coach. Some of today’s sitcoms even have an almost all black cast.Times have been changing.

Over time (not 40 yrs ago and loans, ski) , and much conversation, the realization of “we the people” was indoctrinated into our thought process to include All people. As many would say, there’s a long way still to go, but all would say we’ve come a long way.

[smile]

dc

Anyone interested in some education? Just got some unless somebody smarter than the 3 guys in this video can prove them wrong. It's a little lengthy but worth the time. An Independent, a Democrat & Republican team up to give an outstanding data & pattern analysis in what they term not voter fraud but rather election fraud. To me it starts out a little scientific but as it progresses it all becomes clearer & clearer culminating with conclusions any voter should be interested in & appreciative of the information. You may find this video on You Tube with Dr. Shiva Ayyaduria, MIT, PHD as the head presenter accompanied by 2 other what appear to be data & pattern analysts. I found it at "When computers cheat, they evidently leave evidence behind". By Andrea Widburg.

dc

Then you might say the same happened to whites especially small family farmers. Lots of them possibly far outnumbering black farmers. It also may be that for whatever reason some, if not many, of both categories failed to keep proper records needed/required like among other things ownership. And, when it received news coverage there were some folks coming out of the woodwork who hadn't farmed in many years or had never farmed period making claims.

dc

Food costs were/are higher? So some folks shop at the old A & P but one paid more than the other? Why? I guess if you had no transportation to the old A & P and had to shop at the ole country store then food cost were more for sure. Those w/o transportation paid for or got a free ride with those who had it or gave somebody a shopping list. Those of us who might have lived it know. Indeed times were not so easy for ALL of us less fortunate in the day. Cry me a river.

dc

Schools? W.S. King & Queen's Street HS were pretty good schools with graduates with outstanding accomplishments. Sadly, it may be that ALL students who graduated HS back then got a better education than today. My wife, who unlike me didn't need to worry about the draft & whose family was financially able to send her to college, was also less fortunate to attend a HS which in at least some subject areas not up-to-date as say MCHS. When she got to college she had never used a microscope.

mpjeep

I did look at the video you recommended, dc, well most of it. It’s over an hour long and in some cases very technical, but interesting for sure. Dr. Shiva is a very smart guy. Twenty percent of our doctors in the US are from India. I’m not sure if he invented email, just like I’m not sure if Gore invented the internet. :-))

We need more uniformity in the election process. Every state has its own system and with that leaves concerns about the results. Some states don’t have voter ID laws and some states don’t even have signature laws. Some require notaries to verify signatures and some require an independent witness. I think we should have a “National” standard.

There is no reason why vote counting is not done within 24 hours of poll closing times. Alabama did it in 3 hours. NC is extremely sloooooow.

Al Gore contested the vote count in Florida for over 5 weeks. Issues even back in 1960 between JFK and Nixon surrounded the voting process.

One thing I must point out is that Trump got 71 million votes in 2020. Clinton got 66 million in 2016 and Obama got 66 million in 2012. And yes, Biden got 75 million in 2020.

Trump lost votes due to what many perceived as his mismanagement of Covid-19. But Trump does have a large group of enthusiastic followers. It’s not likely most will change their support for Trump and it’s not likely there will be another pandemic in 2024, to help democrats.

As I write this, I’m listening to a story that Pelosi is starting to align with the “Squad”. And AOC said that democrats shouldn’t be in a hurry to work with Republicans. Could be a real game changer for us all, if we don’t send these socialist packing.

dc

Agree with everything you posted mjp except that Harris was elected VP. Nobody has been "elected" VP at this point. Yes, it's unreal how times have changed. I can't imagine today seeing an elderly white lady wearing her sun bonnet riding on the back of a pulp wood truck headed to the county seat to pay her taxes. She was my great aunt.

mpjeep

Thanks, ski. Yea ,as David said, let's put this one to rest. Have a great Thanksgiving as well.

dc

The most informative part of the video for me was the last 10-15 minutes. My take away from it is that there was most certainly massive election manipulation & fraud. Where did all those millions of votes come from on both sides probably making the fraud seem normal? Why was there far from a blue wave but actually gains down ballot & loss at the top? The analytics paint a complete picture. One of the presenters said the chance was zero percent it happened the way the manipulaters intended but he would give it a one percent at most. This was all about MI but as explained it is more than just MI. That video explains a lot & it's not favorable for the Ds. The other 2 analyst in the video agreed with everything the MIT PhD said. If this crookiness is not stopped in its tracks we are gone.

dc

Have you seen the video of LtGen McInerney explaining hammer & scorecard?

dc

Lol . She does 10X the work? 10X the work of who & for what? No wonder she frowns & pouts all the time, She's being worked to death for minimum wage. Somebody better report that.

dc

Whatever you think of the man here's a wakeup call. Ignore it at your peril. "Biden Beholden to Radicals". By Sally Zelikovsky.

dc

Any of you guys who might have been fortunate enough to work in the Trump Admin. can breathe a sigh of relief. After all their massive fraud still didn't manifest a blue wave they've graciously pulled back their Trump Accountability Project. So nice of them. "Leftist cabal's sleazy to blacklist Trump supporters blows up in their faces". By Monica Showalter.

CARTERETISCORRUPT

Civil discourse? With all the censorship that is ongoing? That idea of civil discourse is quite humorous. Civil discourse with a liberal? I certainly cannot state here my true position on that, for it would be surely censored.

JusticeForAll

Bloated. That terms seems to fit this thread's civil discourse. And it is what Thanksgiving is all about...pass the turkey/tofurky. Have a Happy one!

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